173 replies to this topic

[Merry Eyesore the Elk]

Straightening my tie. My friends are finally here. Let me take a breath.

/cough

Are you ready?

/cough

Can you hear me? In the back?

Can you hear us? In the back?



Ysgramor was a Dragon.


YS GRA MOR


/ahem

Let's tear this forest down.

[Lady Nerevar]

Naturally. Altmora froze over when the mirror-aspect of the time god left for the sunny shores of the starry heart, ever verdant thanks to the interplay of quantum foam. You say this as if it is a revolution.

[DarthRavanger]

Cool.

[SilentColossus]

Interesting.

[Hasphat Antabolis]

An interesting theory. But as usual, the credulous minds gravitate to the most outlandish theories.

If Ysgramor was indeed a "dragon", most likely he was a Dragon Priest - in the Late Merethic Era, it would be unlikely for a leader of Ysgramor's reported stature to be unconnected to the Dragon Cult. But connecting the Nord hero Ysgramor with the now-reviled Dragon Cult is of course anathema to those who favor chauvinism over historical truth.

Other possibilities are that Ysgramor was not an individual but an amalgamation of several people - his reported exploits encompass an unreasonable amount of time for a single individual. At the time, anyone of high stature or great prowess in battle would have been considered a "dragon" (the highest compliment imaginable). This does not mean that Ysgramor was in fact an actual dragon, but I have no doubt that the literal-minded among us will not hesitate to jump to the most obvious conclusions. True scholars will of course be more circumspect.

[Trillid]

Sure. Whatever you say.

[Trillid]

If he was, I probably killed him.

[SithisLorkhan]

Then who was the Ysgramor in Sovngarde? Did Ysgry had the ability to take on human form? An old post by WormGod suggested that some dragons did so, and you can make up a story of Olaf One-Eye being Numinex's human form.

[TengenToppa]

Now, how Dragon? Are we talking about the emotional and psychological state? Paarthurnax says that all dragons desire power and dominance, and Ysgramor is renowned as a warrior and conqueror. That kind of stuff is a lot more important on Tamriel.

Edited by TengenToppa, 08 March 2012 - 10:12 PM.

[Seras Arenim]

What kind of dragon sports a beard and wields the Elf-Grinder, I say?

"Ho ha ho."

[Alduine]

Shor did shake his scaled mane....

Maybe he's simply reconciling what we kinda-sorta thought we knew from Shor son of Shor and the 500 companions.

Lady Nerevar sure seems to agree, if I'm reading her right.

Edited by Alduine, 08 March 2012 - 11:26 PM.

[SithisLorkhan]

Five Hundred Companions text ends with dragon counterparts to the companions, and when a poster asked if the Nords were becoming dragons, Merry Eyesore's answer to me seems to be "Sorta". Ysgramor underwent Dracochrysalis like Auri-El. Talos also ended up becoming a dragon with his Nordic aspect as Ysmir. Tosh Raka became a dragon too, as well as Martin. All of them were partly-divine kings. Wouldn't be surprised if Alessia and Reman became Dragons too,

[Feykromiin]

(Thud)

(Thudthud. Thud.)

(thudKTHUNCHKTHUDTHUNCH.)

KROKELPAAR! HIN ZULZOOR HON! HON, STADNAU ZEYMAH!

AHRK HUZRAH - HIN FIIK MEYZ!

(thud. slithersuckslide. thudTHUD.)

Se praan alok... wah vahrukt wahl ... Joor rattles rasping husks of shucked history. But golden glimmer dreams, yuvon hahnu, the hoard of thought, he has none. Destitution-decay, poverty-pruned, lokqo daanik feim... mortal, forever. Oh, where are those who remember?! Of the burdened gloaming depths, the star browed waves? Of mossy crag in frostbite swallowed, diivon diin ahrk krosis kruhziik? WHO CAN NOW TELL? WHO REMEMBERS, REMEMBERS THE SWORD-SCALED SCIONS IN FLIGHT?

... ... come. I taste your sighs on the winds, zeymah. UNSLAAD VARUKHT SE DOVAH! MEYZ! Whisper-whip-wield Voice in this tympanimeet. Let mortal mind meet metal memory.

Joorre. Your wraith bone recall fades, shifts, twists... but our Voices spear living memory. Mine brethren come.

[Aranarkus]

I can parse the Grah(battle) and Mor(o)(glory) part, but not the Ys. Anyone more familiar with the Dragon Language? Unless Ys is a corruption of Iiz for Ice... That doesn't make much sense either.. though it would make Ysmir a quasi-fitting title for Talos. IIZ MIR. (Ice-Allegiance)
...
Nevermind.

[Dargor]

I look forward to what this thread may bring to the table.

Edited by Dargor, 09 March 2012 - 12:09 AM.

[Aranarkus]

I look forward to what this thread my bring to the table.

Lets be honest, it can't be worse than what's come up in the "what is the nerevarine doing" thread. Unless by the forest the Elk means the lore community.. then it can presumably be worse.

[Trillid]

I get the feeling that this is more of a fanfic. Bethesda did put Ysgramor in game. http://www.uesp.net/...Skyrim:Ysgramor

[SithisLorkhan]

(Thud)

(Thudthud. Thud.)

(thudKTHUNCHKTHUDTHUNCH.)

[Sorcerer-Elder Scroll-Ambition! Your voice-legend hear! Hear unbound brothers!]

[And hearken - Your mirror become!]

(thud. slithersuckslide. thudTHUD.)

[Of rest arise.. to memory create] ... [mortal] rattles rasping husks of shucked history. But golden glimmer dreams, [golden dream], the hoard of thought, he has none. Destitution-decay, poverty-pruned, [sky-lightning doomed fade]... mortal, forever. Oh, where are those who remember?! Of the burdened gloaming depths, the star browed waves? Of mossy crag in frostbite swallowed, [swallowed frozen and sorrow ancient]. WHO CAN NOW TELL? WHO REMEMBERS, REMEMBERS THE SWORD-SCALED SCIONS IN FLIGHT?

... ... come. I taste your sighs on the winds, . [Eternal memory of Dragon! Become!] Whisper-whip-wield Voice in this tympanimeet [Note: Tympani is a nerve in the tounge]. Let mortal mind meet metal memory.

[Mortal]. Your wraith bone recall fades, shifts, twists... but our Voices spear living memory. Mine brethren come.

Translated it for your benefit. Can't be bothered to do correct grammar, so you'll have to rearrange and interpret the words yourself.

Also, is it just me, or does Sorcerer-Elder Scroll-Ambition and Forest-Sorcerer-Eye remind anyone else of Herma Mora?

Edited by SithisLorkhan, 09 March 2012 - 12:20 AM.

[Dargor]

Lets be honest, it can't be worse than what's come up in the "what is the nerevarine doing" thread. Unless by the forest the Elk means the lore community.. then it can presumably be worse.

Consider how our foliage covered Dov friend here had just seemingly registered, me thinks there's a little collaborative thing going on. Either way, this will hopefully prove to be most entertaining.

[Trillid]

I think the Dragon was also MK.

Edited by Trillid, 09 March 2012 - 12:18 AM.

[Lady Nerevar]

Consider how our foliage covered Dov friend here had just seemingly registered, me thinks there's a little collaborative thing going on. Either way, this will hopefully prove to be most entertaining.

Not one of the aforementioned "us," but the Elk did ask for people to play along. Always a good time.

If Ysgramor was indeed a "dragon", most likely he was a Dragon Priest - in the Late Merethic Era, it would be unlikely for a leader of Ysgramor's reported stature to be unconnected to the Dragon Cult.

This theory seems to be supported by archaeological evidence, namely Ysgramor's shield and tombs contemporary to the period.

At the time, anyone of high stature or great prowess in battle would have been considered a "dragon" (the highest compliment imaginable). This does not mean that Ysgramor was in fact an actual dragon, but I have no doubt that the literal-minded among us will not hesitate to jump to the most obvious conclusions. True scholars will of course be more circumspect.

Mayhaps you care to present textual evidence? The Nordic visions of a Draconic Talos are an obvious modern equivalent, and so far as I can tell clearly refer not to title or metaphor but to the Nords seeing an actual, honest to Gods Dragon when looking upon Tiber Septim. The occasional eye-witness account of the Graybeards as dragons have in recent weeks also proven to be true. I know of no others to be called dragons in so serious a manner. I think we can all agree on the existence of a Dragon Cult in old Atmora, and therefore the existence of Dragons. We know also that Ysgramor was a great chief among his peoples, and is regarded as a culture bringer by both scholars and theologians. Sounds like a Dragon - or even the Dragon, see Akatosh in the Imperial heartland - rather than merely a priest.

[Ta'oyb]

A query; is spirit consultancy illicit here in these halls?

For I hear rumors that The College of Whispers may have in their spectre-libraries, bottled ghosts of early Nordic settlers, stolen from ruins of Saarthal; shall we send word we wish to commune?

Or perhaps this would resolve little; if all who looked upon the Man, described him as a Dragon, would that make him a Dragon? Or a Man? King Ysgramor; Dragon Ysgramor; Ysmir Ysgramor.

Edited by Ta'oyb, 09 March 2012 - 03:03 AM.

[Adventurous Willie]

The warrior in Sovngarde was truly Ysgramor. Ald was also truly the frozen/corrupted/inverted Ysgramor. (consult "How Herkel the Fool Became a Clever Man")

These two are one person, in the Dragonborn.

Edited by Adventurous Willie, 09 March 2012 - 03:10 AM.

[Crimson Paladin]

Maybe he was a Dragonborn. Back before it was unthinkable to try to kill the dragons.

Edit: And because it had to be done:

Ysgramor was a man
I mean, he was a Dragon-man
Maybe he was just a Dragon
But he was still YSGRAMOR!!!

Edited by Crimson Paladin, 09 March 2012 - 03:14 AM.

[Raendar]

Very good, thank you! =)
Ice - Battle -- ??
Really don't understand the third.

[Haute Quêteure]

I'm starting to think that 'Dragonborn' is a rather poor translation of DOVAKHIIN.

'Dragonembryo' seems more appropriate.

[Aranarkus]

I'm starting to think that 'Dragonborn' is a rather poor translation of DOVAKHIIN.

'Dragonembryo' seems more appropriate.

Dovahkiin are neotenic Dov? If so, would developing beyond this (stunted?) state be dracochrysalis, apotheosis, or both? If (also) so, what conditions would be required to force the transformation, and did Ysgramor successfully accomplish this?

Edited by Aranarkus, 09 March 2012 - 10:02 AM.

[SithisLorkhan]

Dovahkiin are neotenic Dov? If so, would developing beyond this (stunted?) state be dracochrysalis, apotheosis, or both? If (also) so, what conditions would be required to force the transformation, and did Ysgramor successfully accomplish this?

Both, because Dracochyrsalis is a form of Apotheosis.

[Haute Quêteure]

'scuse m'lads n' lasses whilst I take t'guise...

The rather precocious blue squirrel nibbling on acorns on yonder branch is quite correct in her non-plussment.

The Father of The Fatherland of the Nord national consciousness, like all the epoch-auteurs of the history of men before and hence, was possessed, in animo, of an aurbilical protoontologue of world-coiling majesty. It has many nyms amongst the lingual-minds writhing across the aurbical silt like anemones filtered-feeding on premises, but the one with [fiat] currency amongst my order is Akagarbha: Embryo of Pankratia, Dragon-Nature, The Tosh-principle, Seed of Imperium. Given proper cultivation, good [reign] and black [raum], it may sprout into mighty banyan-tumtum, Aurbor Mundi, whose fruits exceed varieties fifty-score and eight.

Doubters take note of my [circles]:

All Imperators are Dragons. (I /\ D)

Ysgramor was Imperator Nordicus [High-King]. (y /\ I)

Ysgramor was a Dragon (y <=> D), QUD.

[Feykromiin]

Nahl, sahlo joorrebrod. Is my hide hoary hirsute? I am the root-rune, the rhizome-recall, uifeygol ahrk rotruhkt se qeth, FEYKROMIIN! Through horizon and horizon I wrench to the wheezing summons of Eye-Wounded Elk, the great Thoroughly-Odd, Fehkey Sadon se Moro, for fey and fey and feykromvahl, to strike down in stencil-stone and root-rune the bubbling deeps of this Sky Rim's past. Tinvaak se dovah voth joorre, for your growth and groan. So bring your spirit liqueur. My kin - if they wilt heed my call - will guzzle it like the blood and brine of old.

But you jibber and jabber, and my words rise slow. It has been long since I held tinvaak with mortals. Of egg and seed and coccoon you speak, of scaly shell and frothing Blood springs. But where does it rise? Whence wells Blood? And from whence did we exodust the seas?

Edited by Feykromiin, 09 March 2012 - 12:55 PM.