82 replies to this topic

[wiz0floyd]

Just thought I'd let everyone know that there's a new patch in the beta section on Steam and it fixes a few Steam Workshop issues.

http://www.bethblog....lable-on-steam/

[behippo]

SKSE also has an update for this beta available: http://skse.silverlo...skse_1_04_11.7z

[Occam's Razor]

THis kinda sucks, because this means that a new patch has to come out to fix Steam Issues, which in turn requires things like Script Dragon and other plugins
to keep updating. :/

[Kazekage]

I hope the load order functionality they are implementing sorts out the constant redownloading of the same mods. Everytime I change the load order in NMM, Steam Workshops keeps redownloading the 30 mods I already have. I can stop this but if I add one extra mod then I have to download 30 to get to the new one that needs downloading.

Edited by Kazekage, 20 February 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[tacitus59]

I have been having occassional unresponsive issues with archane enchanter - so it looks like this is good fix to try especially since there is a beta version of skse available as well.

[MarStinson]

Grrrr.... I should learn to read the rest of the posts in the thread before doing anything. Went with the beta, SKSE wouldn't launch, reverted to 1.4.10, found out there is an update to SKSE, reupdated...

@behippo - the link on the SKSE page at silverlock still points to the 4.10 version. Your link here worked just fine.

Edited by MarStinson, 20 February 2012 - 10:01 PM.

[behippo]

Grrrr.... I should learn to read the rest of the posts in the thread before doing anything. Went with the beta, SKSE wouldn't launch, reverted to 1.4.10, found out there is an update to SKSE, reupdated...

@behippo - the link on the SKSE page at silverlock still points to the 4.10 version. Your link here worked just fine.

Yes - we haven't updated the main page or the one from the link yet. We generally update that when the Skyrim release clears beta. When we expect the beta to be available for a while we update the webpage as well.

[Psymon]

Mod load order functionality on the launcher.

A veritable quantum leap for Bethesda.

[Mistahtokyo]

Mod load order functionality on the launcher.

A veritable quantum leap for Bethesda.

Does it work? I almost want to believe that it's some sort of early April fool's joke...

[Arthmoor]

Does it work? I almost want to believe that it's some sort of early April fool's joke...

Insofar as the interface components work and mods shuffle about, yes. It doesn't stick though.

[JustinOther]

SKSE also has an update for this beta available: http://skse.silverlo...skse_1_04_11.7z

Thanks!

THis kinda sucks, because this means that a new patch has to come out to fix Steam Issues, which in turn requires things like Script Dragon and other plugins

to keep updating. :/

On the bright side, the beta updates are optional...

[frihyland]

Insofar as the interface components work and mods shuffle about, yes. It doesn't stick though.

lol, it would be amusing if they are running into the same issue's that BOSS users are having, steam overwrites any changes and must be turned off to make load order changes work.
It may actually may be a good thing maybe they'll take a longer look at the load order issue. Anyway a new beta should be on the way, wheeee!

[Arthmoor]

Well Steam doesn't interfere with Wrye Bash setting the time, but then again, I don't spend a lot of time in the official launcher either since I run the game through SKSE.

[wkomarecki]

Does this new update allow to just dawnload and track file without automatic installation and update ?

[Son of Skyrim]

Looks like the only things updated were the exe, the launcher, and the interface bsa. Also, the Steam wrapper has been removed from the exe (probably not intentional).

[Gloomfrost]

Looks like the only things updated were the exe, the launcher, and the interface bsa. Also, the Steam wrapper has been removed from the exe (probably not intentional).

wait you mean if i update to this beta patch i don't have to run steam before playing Skyrim? Surely a dream come true if real!

Edited by Gloomfrost, 21 February 2012 - 06:04 AM.

[Sslaxx]

As was pointed out, it's very likely not an intentional thing (or only intended for during beta testing), so don't count on it being the case when the updates clear beta.

Edited by Sslaxx, 21 February 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Karellan]

From a comment there: "I’m curious about the “with new PC-specific optimizations that includes new” bulletpoint that was briefly listed and then quickly deleted ."

I wonder... are they STILL adding more optimizations to the PC version? That would be insanely great. Since Patch 1.4, I rarely drop below 55FPS... maybe this patch will elevate that to a constant 60. Can't wait to try it out as soon as I get home.

Interestingly, adding load order functionality to the launcher is kind of a first for Bethesda. I don't recall any such thing in the morrowind or oblivion launcher. This is such a dramatic 'official' step forward for supporting mods properly (not that we don't have better load-order managing tools already).

Edited by Karellan, 21 February 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[deaths_soul]

From a comment there: "I’m curious about the “with new PC-specific optimizations that includes new” bulletpoint that was briefly listed and then quickly deleted ."

I wonder... are they STILL adding more optimizations to the PC version? That would be insanely great. Since Patch 1.4, I rarely drop below 55FPS... maybe this patch will elevate that to a constant 60. Can't wait to try it out as soon as I get home.

Sorry I pointed it out? >.>

Could've been something they were going to include, but was too buggy so it was scrapped. Or it could've been from the 1.4 patch, which did include optimizations. If the wording is different, perhaps they used the same template but changed the wording for the final 1.4 release. It's not too far-fetched.

[Son of Skyrim]

wait you mean if i update to this beta patch i don't have to run steam before playing Skyrim? Surely a dream come true if real!

Hurry up and get it before they patch the patch!

[RPGWiZaRD]

Nevermind

Edited by RPGWiZaRD, 21 February 2012 - 09:41 AM.

[Fuzzy_Logic]

Why isn't the SKSE beta posted on the SKSE download page? This happens with every patch. It's never posted for people to download from the actual download page!

[deaths_soul]

Why isn't the SKSE beta posted on the SKSE download page? This happens with every patch. It's never posted for people to download from the actual download page!

Yes - we haven't updated the main page or the one from the link yet. We generally update that when the Skyrim release clears beta. When we expect the beta to be available for a while we update the webpage as well.

Right up above.

[Fuzzy_Logic]

That doesn't really answer the question. "We keep the beta update completely hidden from everyone unless someone posts a direct link, forcing people participating to be unable to play even though there is a compatible SKSE." doesn't make any sense.

[deaths_soul]

It does make sense. The betas are test releases. They change rapidly. They need to update to keep up with that. Once it hits stable, they then make it public when it works fully with the new version. You wouldn't want a version to be out for everyone that is not meant for day to day use.

[Shadow771]

From a comment there: "I’m curious about the “with new PC-specific optimizations that includes new” bulletpoint that was briefly listed and then quickly deleted ."

I wonder... are they STILL adding more optimizations to the PC version? That would be insanely great. Since Patch 1.4, I rarely drop below 55FPS... maybe this patch will elevate that to a constant 60. Can't wait to try it out as soon as I get home.

Interestingly, adding load order functionality to the launcher is kind of a first for Bethesda. I don't recall any such thing in the morrowind or oblivion launcher. This is such a dramatic 'official' step forward for supporting mods properly (not that we don't have better load-order managing tools already).

It was a mistake in the draft version. They fixed it when it got pointed out.

[wrinklyninja]

So I've gotten a report from a user that timestamps no longer determine load order in the beta, and that load order is now determined, not just recorded, in the order that plugins are listed in the plugins.txt file. The user reported that BOSS, Wrye Bash and NMM are all affected by this, with alterations by them having no effect in game.

Since this has quite large ramifications, I'd like some independent confirmation/denial of this, if anyone can provide that. I've already PMed GStaff requesting info, but he's probably very overworked.

[Arthmoor]

So I've gotten a report from a user that timestamps no longer determine load order in the beta, and that load order is now determined, not just recorded, in the order that plugins are listed in the plugins.txt file. The user reported that BOSS, Wrye Bash and NMM are all affected by this, with alterations by them having no effect in game.

Since this has quite large ramifications, I'd like some independent confirmation/denial of this, if anyone can provide that. I've already PMed GStaff requesting info, but he's probably very overworked.

Ouch. Confirmed. Open Cities Skyrim should have the 08 index according to Wrye Bash, but the game has it listed as 07, which is the index it would get going by the plugins.txt file.

Seems like that ought to be easy to fix though by simply forcing the plugins.txt file to be written according to the set load order.

One thing to note though - Skyrim.esm and Update.esm are NOT listed in this file anymore.

Edited by Arthmoor, 21 February 2012 - 02:37 PM.

[wrinklyninja]

Seems like that ought to be easy to fix though by simply forcing the plugins.txt file to be written according to the set load order.

One thing to note though - Skyrim.esm and Update.esm are NOT listed in this file anymore.

Thanks for the confirmation in any case.

Issues I've spotted in terms of BOSS's handling:
1. Skyrim.esm, Update.esm not listed. Not really a problem, BOSS can skip these specifically.
2. Plugins.txt only holds active load order, which BOSS is agnostic to. Will need to read plugins.txt first to determine active plugins, then output a new list of only those plugins.
3. The encoding of plugins.txt is variable, and so BOSS can't just assume that it's UTF-8, and so must handle alternative encodings and their conversions for an unspecified number of unspecified encodings.

Right, so can anyone spot any issues with the following workflow for writing a plugins.txt:

• Check that the current game is Skyrim and that it's version is >= 1.4.26. Return if not the case.
• Build a hashset of all the plugins listed in plugins.txt. Plugins should be converted to lowercase just in case BOSS has them in the wrong case. Note that the plugins.txt is not encoded in Unicode. Will need to convert between variable encoding and UTF-8.
• Once the hashset is built, open up an ofstream to plugins.txt.
• Iterate through the items vector looking only at MOD items.
• Skip the Skyrim.esm and Update.esm items.
• Search for each one in the hashset, and if found output it to the plugins.txt file. Remember to back-convert the encodings of plugins added from UTF-8 to whatever encoding the plugins.txt uses.
• Once the items vector has been iterated through, close the stream and return.

(That's written for C++, with some BOSS code terminology, sorry.)

The encoding issue is a real PITA. The rest I can work with, but why not Unicode!

Edited by wrinklyninja, 21 February 2012 - 03:09 PM.

[Arthmoor]

Yeah. Just be aware that if BOSS is going to put Skyrim.esm and Update.esm in the plugins.txt file they absolutely need to go first. Re-activating them in Wrye Bash caused it to write those files at the end of the list. I shudder to think of the chaos that might ensue if the game follows that order religiously.