92 replies to this topic

[Mezmorelda]

....................................................................
OVERHAUL LOAD ORDER
FOOK - FWE - WMK - EVE - MMM
....................................................................

Hi all! So you want to run FWE, WMK, and MMM together? Oh wait, you also want to run FOOK and EVE? Now things are getting complicated . . . Well anyway, it seems there is a post every hour asking for help with getting a basic "overhaul" load order functioning proerly. So, I'm making this post to contain, to the best of my knowledge, a working load order for using the FOIP and/or FWE-FOOK Merger Files together. So, here's what you need to use the overhauls together:

FOIP Fallout Interoperability Program

FWE-FOOK Merger

Okay, in addition to the load order guide (below), note that the current version of Fallout Mod Manager (FOMM) and the Fallout version of Better Oblivion Sorting Software (BOSS-F) both include automatic load order sorters that will get your basic overhaul load order lined up correctly. Despite these nice features, it's good to have a clean overview of what it should look like. So here's we go!

Overaul Load Order:

---------------------------------------------------- OFFICIAL MASTERS 
Fallout3.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm

---------------------------------------------------- MOD RESOURCES
CRAFT.esm
CALIBR.esm

---------------------------------------------------- MOD MASTERS (In this order!)
Project Beauty HD version.esm

FOOK2 - Main.esm
FOOK2 - [[censored]] World And Neighbourhood Kit.esm
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esm

FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

---------------------------------------------------- ESP's to load BEFORE overhauls
CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp
DarNifiedUIF3.esp

---------------------------------------------------- FOOK
FOOK2 - Main.esp
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp
FOOK2 - [EVE] Energy Visuals Enhanced.esp
FOOK2 - Mothership Zeta.esp

---------------------------------------------------- Fallout Wanderers Edition
FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).esp
FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Worn Weapons.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - OTHER OPTIONAL FWE MODULES

FO3 Wanderers Edition - FOOK Support.esp  (FROM FWE-FOOK Merger)
FO3 Wanderers Edition - FOOK DLC Support.esp  (FROM FWE-FOOK Merger)

---------------------------------------------------- Weapon Mod Kits
WeaponModKits.esp

WeaponModKits - FOOK.esp (FROM FOIP)

WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp (FROM FOIP)
WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp (FROM FOIP)
WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp (FROM FOIP)
WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp (FROM FOIP)
WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp (FROM FOIP)
WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp (FROM FOIP)

---------------------------------------------------- Energy Visuals Enhanced
EVE.esp
EVE Operation Anchorage.esp

EVE - FWE Master Release.esp  (FROM FOIP)
EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp (FROM FOIP)
EVE - FWE with WeaponModKits.esp  (FROM FOIP)

---------------------------------------------------- Mods to load AFTER overhauls

---------------------------------------------------- Mart's Mutant Mod
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 (FROM FOIP)

Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp (FROM FOIP)
Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE with EVE.esp (FROM FOIP)

Fook+Fwe+mmm+pb.esp (FROM FWE-FOOK Merger, note that this requires Project Beauty HD)

---------------------------------------------------- Merged files

i.e. Mez's Merged Patch

Notes

[] We're in the process of fixing up the FWE-FOOK merger files a little more, and to also include updated support for Project Beauty (BP). This will include standalone BP support for FWE, MMM, and FOOK, as well as any combination of the above.

[] In the near future, we'll also be combining the FWE-FOOK merger files with the FOIP program, so that it's all in one nice tidy place =)

[] You may also want to look at Realistic Wasteland Inhabitants (RWI), which loads after the above mods. There are additional support files for RWI available through the FWE-FOOK merger. RWI requires FOOK, FWE, and MMM.

Edited by Mezmorelda, 21 December 2009 - 03:59 PM.

[TheCastle]

Is this the ultimate equivalent to FCOM right now?
I wonder if it would be a popular choice to simply combine as many of those as possible into a single large ESM.

edit: I guess that its really not necessary. I just think its amazing to see so many big mods working together at once like that.

Edited by TheCastle, 15 December 2009 - 07:38 PM.

[Kataki]

Ya i wish someone would make a single ESM/ESP of WMK, EVE, FOOK, FWE, and MMM

[Mezmorelda]

Ya i wish someone would make a single ESM/ESP of WMK, EVE, FOOK, FWE, and MMM

In theory this is entirely possible, however, it would take a lot of work. While you can use FO3Plugin to quicky "merge" mod records together, there are a lot of instances when you'll want FOOK's changes to take priority over FWE, othertimes when FWE needs to trump FOOK, etc... So that means you need to manually create the merged file, which takes forever. And then someone will update one of the merged mods, and then you have to rebuild the whole thing.

[Nessh]

How is the FOOK-FWE merger coming along now? I tried it a while ago, but it was pretty messy. Some ammo was weightless, some wasn't, stuff was waaaaay too abundant, everyone was a walking arsenal, not everything added by FOOK worked with PN, not to mention everything turned back into bullet sponges. It felt too FOOK and not enough FWE. Which is a shame, because I do like most of the content FOOK adds, but not the pseudo-vanilla gameplay it has where it's too easy to be a god.

[Mezmorelda]

When Offkorn originally setup the FWE-FOOK merger, he did a couple things that I wouldn't have done, which included stuff like "averaging" the weapon damage between FOOK values and FWE values. The result is something that might not be balanced from a FOOK perspective or a FWE perspective. I don't know when you last tried the merger, but my understanding is that it currently addresses many of your concerns. However . . .

In all honesty, I haven't even loaded up the game with FOOK + FWE running, as FOOK really isn't what I'm interested in. My involvement with the FWE-FOOK merger is primarily sorting out the CP's and working, now, with Streetstat5 on the files from a technical "getting it to work" standpoint, and not from a gameplay or balance standpoint. This does make me a little sad, but I just don't have enough time (and haven't for a while) to work more dilligently on FOOK-related stuff in addition to updating FWE and the other FOIP CP's. Ideally, it would be much easier to let FOOK handle adding the new content and FWE to handle balancing it all, and not try to hybridize the two balance approaches. Maybe down the road I can look into transitioning things more towards that, but it really falls on Streetstar5 or whoever else is more passionate about using FOOK with FWE to get the balance right, fix oversights and inconsistiences, etc...

Edited by Mezmorelda, 16 December 2009 - 09:42 AM.

[TheCastle]

In theory this is entirely possible, however, it would take a lot of work. While you can use FO3Plugin to quicky "merge" mod records together, there are a lot of instances when you'll want FOOK's changes to take priority over FWE, othertimes when FWE needs to trump FOOK, etc... So that means you need to manually create the merged file, which takes forever. And then someone will update one of the merged mods, and then you have to rebuild the whole thing.

The only way I can see pulling this off is if said original authors began directly modding the combined esm itself and sending the ESP to the one(s) in control of the merging process as part of the update process... Though in the end I wonder if combining mods might actually be a hindrance in itself when considering that most here seem to enjoy the "make your own game" mentality.

To be honest what I would like to see is what features most people actually have decided to add to their games. Now that would be an interesting list to see in action worth building another actual game after even. That would be infinitely valuable developer info.

Dev Houses that don't see the value of a mod community like this have their heads in the sand imho.

Edited by TheCastle, 16 December 2009 - 09:58 AM.

[The 3rd Type]

When Offkorn originally setup the FWE-FOOK merger, he did a couple things that I wouldn't have done, which included stuff like "averaging" the weapon damage between FOOK values and FWE values. The result is something that might not be balanced from a FOOK perspective or a FWE perspective.

FOOK used to use T3T_WT as a weapon stats base. I never remember getting a clear reason why it was abandoned.

[Psymon]

When I read the first post my thoughts were "cool FWE and FOOK2 finally getting some more attention by the main modders themselves, but I'll wait."

Then I read up on Realistic Wasteland mods

Then scrounged around and saw a few other mods being made specifically for the FWE-FOOK2 merger - getting more tempting.

I'm gonna wait, however, and use MMM-MonsterPerks in the mean time. And then in a similar fashion ROBCO robot perks also goes in the load order.

Thanks for the work you modders do.

[edit] hmmm ...looking at FO3edit and scratching my head - it seems the MMM monsterPerks are mostly integrated into the MMM- FWE FOIP package - but no mention of it in the readmes.

Edited by Psymon, 17 December 2009 - 04:16 AM.

[Corinth]

Is this the ultimate equivalent to FCOM right now?
I wonder if it would be a popular choice to simply combine as many of those as possible into a single large ESM.

edit: I guess that its really not necessary. I just think its amazing to see so many big mods working together at once like that.

I suggest you go read about what FCOM is and you will realize why that's an invalid question.

[Mezmorelda]

[edit] hmmm ...looking at FO3edit and scratching my head - it seems the MMM monsterPerks are mostly integrated into the MMM- FWE FOIP package - but no mention of it in the readmes.

With FWE 4.0 we made our own version of monster perks (applied to robots too!) and built it into the FWE itself. This naturally carries over to the MMM-FOIP patch. So it is documented, just in the FWE readme and not as part of FOIP.

I haven't really played with RWI either, so I don't know to what extent it overrites the monster perks / foes reworked that are part of FWE. RWI was made before FWE had those features, so my guess it it somewhat overrites them.

[Miaximus]

Great stuff Mez!

With your permission, I would like to add this list to the tutorials (with full credit) if you don't mind?

This indeed is one of the Most Asked questions of all Fallout3-time.

Cheers!

Miax

[Mezmorelda]

With your permission, I would like to add this list to the tutorials (with full credit) if you don't mind?

Link away my friend!

[bmorefan85]

I love it when there is a loadlist to go off of

[WhiteWolf]

Should I still use a merged patch if I use the above load order? Will WMK work as intended with all the weapons FWE and FOOK add or will I have to merge all the WMK, FWE and FOOK files?

[durandal]

how often do you all experience crashing and/or lag from having FOOK/MMM/FWE loaded?

[Carenzi]

I don't have FOOK/MMM/FWE in my setup, but I have EVE/MMM/FWE/WMK and sometimes I can play for hours, no problem. Sometimes I can get a crash within 20 minutes. It seem happen more when using energy weapons so I am starting to suspect EVE for being a part of that, but is hard to tel exactlyl, yet.

Anyone knows if EVE is a common cause of totally random crashes?

[beyondthesun]

Hi guys!

This is an awesome list Mez, congratulations! And I'd like to thank you, and all modders for your great work!
I have a quick question regarding the FOIP patches on Nexus: there are to 2 WMK packages, one for WMK-FOOK, and one for WMK-FWE. However, both of them contains WMK files for DLC support, and they're not the same (according to FOMM's description window: one is for WMK-FOOK, the other is for WMK-FWE).. What I don't understand is, when I install them to the Data folder, they overwrite each other! So for example if I install the FOIP WMK-FOOK package, because I want WMK-FOOK support in the game, then I install FOIP WMK-FWE because I want WMK-FWE support in my game too, but the WMK-FWE DLC files WILL overwrite my WMK-FOOK DLC files... thus I think my WMK-FOOK DLC support will go fubar. I never understood this, which ones do I need to install exactly? Because they even differ from each other in FOMM, in the description window at the bottom...

[Kai Hohiro]

Hi guys!

This is an awesome list Mez, congratulations! And I'd like to thank you, and all modders for your great work!
I have a quick question regarding the FOIP patches on Nexus: there are to 2 WMK packages, one for WMK-FOOK, and one for WMK-FWE. However, both of them contains WMK files for DLC support, and they're not the same (according to FOMM's description window: one is for WMK-FOOK, the other is for WMK-FWE).. What I don't understand is, when I install them to the Data folder, they overwrite each other! So for example if I install the FOIP WMK-FOOK package, because I want WMK-FOOK support in the game, then I install FOIP WMK-FWE because I want WMK-FWE support in my game too, but the WMK-FWE DLC files WILL overwrite my WMK-FOOK DLC files... thus I think my WMK-FOOK DLC support will go fubar. I never understood this, which ones do I need to install exactly? Because they even differ from each other in FOMM, in the description window at the bottom...

This is correct, we gave them the same names in both packages so they would overwrite each other, because they shouldn't be used together at the sametime. The WMK DLC plugins are only there to balance weapons according to an overhauls standard. FOOK and FWE balance their weapons in different ways, and you basically need to decide for one to take priority.

So if you want FWEs weapon balance to take priority, simply use the esps from FWE FOIP pack, if you want FOOKs balance to take priority, take the ones from the FOOK FOIP patch.
But this only counts for the DLC patches, the regular FWE and FOOK FOIP patches can be used together.

Edited by Kai Hohiro, 21 December 2009 - 05:55 AM.

[beyondthesun]

Thanks for the reply!
Now I understand what this is, thanks for explaining!

Actually, this is the least of my problems.. I don't know if this is the right topic for asking help. Some weird things are happening in my game, and I'm afraid this load order didn't help me either.. If someone would help, I'd really appreciate it, because I've tried to sort out the problems for days, without any luck..
So my actual problems are: when I try to add a WMK mod to my weapon, for example to my N99 10mm Pistol, it's damage will decrease from 60 to 35.. now if I'm correct only the silencer will reduce weapon damage, but that's only 10%, and this is far more than that. Another thing, with different load order, adding a silencer to this gun won't change it's damage, and the weapon's name will be "Silenced N99 10mm Pistol" insted of the usual "N99 10mm Pistol (SI)"... the main problem is, whenever I add a mod to any of my weapons, even extended magazine or scope, it's damage will decrease a lot... I really can't figure out why it does that..
Another weird thing is the HK G3A3 weapon. If I modify it whit any WMK mod, it's texture will revert to the FO3 original... Different load order won't help either, there were situations where the gun's texture was it's FO3 original without modding, and when applying a mod to it, it's name changed to "Assault Rifle (SI)"... and I just can't figure out why it does that...
Also, if I don't put the 2 FWE-FOOK MERGER patch to the bottom of the list (above the merged patch), waters in the game won't quench my thirst.. at least thats the only problem so far I have discovered with FWE...
I've tried so many load orders now, I really don't know what to do.... It just won't work..

[Kai Hohiro]

Actually, this is the least of my problems.. I don't know if this is the right topic for asking help. Some weird things are happening in my game, and I'm afraid this load order didn't help me either.. If someone would help, I'd really appreciate it, because I've tried to sort out the problems for days, without any luck..
So my actual problems are: when I try to add a WMK mod to my weapon, for example to my N99 10mm Pistol, it's damage will decrease from 60 to 35.. now if I'm correct only the silencer will reduce weapon damage, but that's only 10%, and this is far more than that. Another thing, with different load order, adding a silencer to this gun won't change it's damage, and the weapon's name will be "Silenced N99 10mm Pistol" insted of the usual "N99 10mm Pistol (SI)"... the main problem is, whenever I add a mod to any of my weapons, even extended magazine or scope, it's damage will decrease a lot... I really can't figure out why it does that..
Another weird thing is the HK G3A3 weapon. If I modify it whit any WMK mod, it's texture will revert to the FO3 original... Different load order won't help either, there were situations where the gun's texture was it's FO3 original without modding, and when applying a mod to it, it's name changed to "Assault Rifle (SI)"... and I just can't figure out why it does that...
Also, if I don't put the 2 FWE-FOOK MERGER patch to the bottom of the list (above the merged patch), waters in the game won't quench my thirst.. at least thats the only problem so far I have discovered with FWE...
I've tried so many load orders now, I really don't know what to do.... It just won't work..

First of all, learn to ignore the damage value FO3 shows, it's borderline useless. Since you have FWE, you also have our handy weaponscanner, so while you are in your inventory simply press 'E' to see your weapons REAL stats.

The HK G3A3...is that from FOOK2 or another mod? Because from the looks you have a mod installed that replaces the standard assault rifle with the HK G3A3 and if that is the case, there is no modded version of your HK G3A3, so when you apply a modkit, naturally it will revert to a regular assault rifle.

The issue with weapon damage decreasing is caused through your load order. If you have FOOK2 loaded before FWE, you also need to load the FOOK2 WMK patch before the FWE version.

And nobody from the FWE or FOOK team actively supports the FWE-FOOK merger patch, so with any problems in that regard you need to get in touch with the author of that mod.

Edited by Kai Hohiro, 21 December 2009 - 06:57 AM.

[Mezmorelda]

And nobody from the FWE or FOOK team actively supports the FWE-FOOK merger patch, so with any problems in that regard you need to get in touch with the author of that mod.

By "actively supports" the FWE-FOOK merger, you mean that we're not 'actually working' on the files in anyway. For my part at least, I support the FWE-FOOK merger effort and the intent, we're just not very involved with the technical/development end of the merger.

[Kai Hohiro]

Yes, better to clarifiy that
We're not against the merger or anything, but the actual esps are pretty much out of our hand.

[beyondthesun]

Thanks Kai, I will try this one out in a few days when I'll have the chance playing the game. I'll report If I can work something out.
I really appreciate the help guys. I can't thank you enough.

[JustinOther]

FOOK2 - [[censored]] World And Neighbourhood Kit.ESM needs to go before [DIK], for the record. An augmented version of it is merged into FOOK2 - Main.ESM now, so after v1.1 there will be one less plugin to worry about, not to mention the whole 'censored' plugin name fiasco will be history. -__-

Thanks for posting this thread, Mez. More and more are going to want multiple overhauls, so having a community standard is awesomesauce.

Edited by JustinOther, 21 December 2009 - 01:26 PM.

[Renegade765]

Great List! Thanks for this.


I'm pretty sure that it is unnecessary, but do you need project beauty to get FWE, MMM, and FOOK to run together smoothly?

[FalloutFTW]

Excellent! I was going to do a clean install of the game because I wanted to use all these overhaul mods, but I was afraid of the load order. Thank you very much!

[Mezmorelda]

Great List! Thanks for this.


I'm pretty sure that it is unnecessary, but do you need project beauty to get FWE, MMM, and FOOK to run together smoothly?

No. There are optional files for using BP "with" FWE, MMM, and FOOK provided that you use ALL of those overhauls. These files are available through the FWE-FOOK merger.

[agiel]

Does anybody know potential causes for a bug which causes FOOK2 to freeze after the death sequence ?

It seems I successfully applied this load order to integrate FWE+MMM+FOOK2+WMK (thanks in large part to this thread) and this is the one major issue that prevents me from using FOOK2 into the mix.

Someone reported this issue at least once in the FOOK2 forum, with no useful answer so far.

I posted my load order in this post.

[Antistar]

Hey Mez; have you considered adding the information from the first post here to the FOIP download page on FO3Nexus? Or maybe a link to this thread? It'd probably help a number of people.